75 Years of Batman | Celebrating Batman's birthday Earth-2 style!

The above link in grey is a brief history of the Dark Knight’s Golden Age history in the DC Universe, with a brief discussion on why the Dark Knight has had a special place in my heart all these years.

And yes, there is a reason Helena Bertinelli is featured in this post. Batman’s 75 year history is relevant to her as well!

thestalkerhermit:

helenawaynehuntress:

holyfuckabear:

thestalkerhermit:

holyfuckabear:

Are we ever going to talk about DC whitewashing Catwoman all the time?

Eh? o.o;

Catwoman has not been whitewashed. She’s been white since her first appearance, you can’t whitewash a character who…

I don’t know, In Catwoman: When in Rome, it’s strongly implied that Maria wasn’t even her real mother, she was probably Louisa Falcon’s biological daughter (considering how much they looked alike), so she might not even be cuban. Just full blooded Italian, 

I can’t agree that she was Latina, for one thing her parentage is very questionable. The scans you just posted aren’t very reliable because Selina doesn’t even seem to remember even having a sister (Maggie?),and two she’s talking to her mothers corpse and it’s talking back. She seems confused as heck.And they don’t even mention Maria being Cuban, just that Maria’s family where refugee’s, which can even indicate that Maria’s family could be from Haiti for all we know.

The one that does mention her family being Cuban, is Harley’s explanation of Selina’s origin, and she is not a reliable source, at all. She doesn’t even say Maria was Cuban, she say’s “Cuban or something” That isn’t a straight answer, how do we know Maria is Cuban and isn’t the “something”?  heck the fact that she said “or something” indicates she’s not even sure herself.

All this shows me is that Selina, like her original self seems to have a memory problem. Speaking of her original self, did her true origin ever state what ethnicity she was?? Because thats the origin that really counts, since it was her first appearance of her character, and the one where all other interpretations of her come from. 

1. Strongly ‘implied’ is not the same as strongly ‘confirmed.’ Unless it was explicitly confirmed by a later narrative that Selina was in fact adopted by the Kyle family, the implication that she may not be Maria’s daughter should be taken with a grain of salt.

2. Selina’s consistent post-Crisis origin has been the one that was retold in the scans I posted, which came from Catwoman #81. The previous versions as explored in the Catwoman (1989) miniseries, Catwoman #0 (the one from 1994) and Catwoman: Year One have been retellings of her origin in Batman: Year One but further expanded on her past that got her to that point. The one that appears in the scans I posted is the story that Selina herself TOLD to Harley Quinn in prison, which is a retelling of Catwoman #0 and to an extent, Catwoman (1989), which is where her sister Magdalene was first introduced. Harley Quinn is, yes, an unreliable narrator, but she does base her version of Selina’s origin on the story Selina told her in prison, which is still consistent with the origin told in Catwoman #0 and Catwoman (1989). Harley may not be the best source for accurately telling Selina’s origin, but Selina herself is still the most reliable source for telling her own story. It was in Selina’s own retelling of her own origin that we learnt more details about her mother (including her ethnicity) other than the fact that she committed suicide when she was a child. 

3. Pretty much every narrative that has been told with Selina in the post-Crisis continuity has gotten its basis on her origin as told in Batman Year One, Catwoman (1989),  Catwoman #0, Catwoman Year One, and Catwoman #81, which have all been retellings of the same origin. I think that is more than sufficient evidence that Selina’s true post-Crisis origin is the one told in the aforementioned titles. Very little—if anything—has come of her story from When in Rome

4. The fact that Selina herself does not confirm her mother’s country of origin does not in itself disprove that her mother is Latina. The prejudices that Maria experiences from her white husband in the pages I posted are in fact unique to Latina women in the United States, and are not universally shared by other women of colour who are also immigrants to the US. Haitian women experience racism very differently in the US from Latina women on the basis of their skin colour alone since most of them (to my knowledge) tend to be black. Even amongst Latina women as a whole group, the experiences also vary depending on the country of origin, which means that experiences amongst Mexican, Colombian, Argentinian, Cuban, and Puerto Rican women do vary. I cannot speak for all Latina women (not even ones from my own group—Colombians), but I can safely tell you from my own experiences and personal observations in the US that the consistent pattern of attitude towards my group (Colombians) is that we are criminals and drug dealers, and that the women try to marry a white Joe for a green card. Cuban women residing in Florida in particular are automatically assumed to be ‘refugees’ from Cuba because of the situation that exists with the government in Cuba. The bottom line here is there is plenty of evidence to suggest that Maria is in fact Latina (and possibly Cuban) even if this is not explicitly stated on the page. The bottom line here is there are experiences that are in fact unique to Latina women that aren’t universally shared by other women of colour.

5. The true origin of the original Catwoman that first appeared in Batman #1 (1940) wasn’t told until 1983 in a story called ‘The Autobiography of Bruce Wayne.’ This story effectively retconned a previous origin from decades earlier that established her as a flight attendant who became an amnesiac following a plane crash and supposedly this led to her criminal career as Catwoman. This story didn’t establish Selina’s pre-Crisis ethnicity nor did it go too far into details about her childhood or past before becoming Catwoman. It is also worth noting that this was the origin of the Golden Age/Earth-2 Catwoman who was also the mother of Helena Wayne (the Huntress). Considering that Crisis on Infinite Earths went through the trouble of retconning five decades of continuity to establish a (then) newer universe, Selina’s pre-Crisis origin is not relevant to this conversation since we are specifically discussing the post-Crisis origin which is (a) drastically different from the pre-Crisis version, and (b) did go into details about her past and did establish her ethnicity. Since this was Selina’s canon in the last two decades, it is considered whitewashing in the year 2014 to undo those developments, especially in a medium where white people are overrepresented. 

holyfuckabear:

helenawaynehuntress:

holyfuckabear:

thestalkerhermit:

holyfuckabear:

Are we ever going to talk about DC whitewashing Catwoman all the time?

Eh? o.o;

Catwoman has not been whitewashed. She’s been white since her first appearance, you can’t whitewash a character who has been white since their first appearance. If your talking about her Italian/Irish ancestry, that falls under ethnicity, and has nothing to do with her skin color/race.

She’s not Italian, she’s Cuban. Her mother, Maria was Cuban-Latina. This was continuity pre-New 52, but post-Golden Age. So, yes, she has been whitewashed.

Verifying the OP’s post, yes Selina Kyle was established as Latina in the post-Crisis continuity. This was explicitly acknowledged in Catwoman #81 and Catwoman #89.

Here are the scans that verify that:

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Recap

Other stories from the post-Crisis continuity that explore Selina Kyle’s Origin:

Catwoman (1989) 1-4
Catwoman (1993) #0
Catwoman (1993) Year One

You are a GODDESS, thank you so much. I know it was brought up in either a Harley and Ivy short or Gotham City Sirens, and I’ve been frantically searching them for a source to cite. I really appreciate it!

You are most welcome. I do remember it being explored explicitly in the first Catwoman ongoing series from the 1990s, so it didn’t take long for me to locate the exact issues.

It honestly surprises me that people keep referring to the When In Rome miniseries when discussing Selina’s origin, when all it did was explore a possible background for the character. If I recall the story line correctly (I think a re-reading is in order) it was eventually established that she was never connected to the mafia. 

Her origin from the Crisis reboot to right before the Flashpoint reboot was that her mother committed suicide when she was a child and her father drank himself to death shortly thereafter, thus orphaning her. She spent some time in an orphanage before eventually escaping, and she became a thief during that time before becoming a sex worker. She also trained during this time and eventually became the cat burglar we all know her for.

That has consistently been Selina’s origin for the past two decades. There have been different variations of that same origin, some of which included Magdalene Kyle, some of which did not. But all of the above major points have been consistent for the past two decades. 

holyfuckabear:

thestalkerhermit:

holyfuckabear:

Are we ever going to talk about DC whitewashing Catwoman all the time?

Eh? o.o;

Catwoman has not been whitewashed. She’s been white since her first appearance, you can’t whitewash a character who has been white since their first appearance. If your talking about her Italian/Irish ancestry, that falls under ethnicity, and has nothing to do with her skin color/race.

She’s not Italian, she’s Cuban. Her mother, Maria was Cuban-Latina. This was continuity pre-New 52, but post-Golden Age. So, yes, she has been whitewashed.

Verifying the OP’s post, yes Selina Kyle was established as Latina in the post-Crisis continuity. This was explicitly acknowledged in Catwoman #81 and Catwoman #89.

Here are the scans that verify that:

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Recap

Other stories from the post-Crisis continuity that explore Selina Kyle’s Origin:

Catwoman (1989) 1-4
Catwoman (1993) #0
Catwoman (1993) Year One

CATWOMAN #89 | The Origin of Selina Kyle, Harley Quinn Edition.
CATWOMAN #89 | The Origin of Selina Kyle, Harley Quinn Edition.
CATWOMAN #81 | The Post-Crisis Origin of Selina Kyle, Part 3.
CATWOMAN #81 | The Post-Crisis Origin of Selina Kyle, Part 2.
CATWOMAN #81 | The Post-Crisis Origin of Selina Kyle, Part 1.

lyrafay:

holyfuckabear:

Are we ever going to talk about DC whitewashing Catwoman all the time?

I didn’t think she had a ethnicity. She’s just Selina Kyle that should matter.

Selina was established as half Latina and half Irish post-Crisis.

iconuk01:

Joe Staton, who co-created the Earth-2 Helena Wayne Huntress back in 1977, with a couple of commission pieces showcasing both Helena and the original Power Girl